The World's Top Divorce Lawyer: If Your Partner Does This, Leave Them!

The Diary of a CEO with Steven Bartlett, featuring James Sexton, one of the world's leading divorce lawyers, returning for his third appearance on the show. Published February 2026, running time two hours and six minutes. Steven just got engaged, and he has brought in the man who has spent twenty five years watching marriages fall apart to help him figure out how not to mess this one up.

Section 1. The State of Love in Society

Steven opens by asking James to zoom out and diagnose society's relationship with love. James paints a picture of a culture that is hungrier than ever for real connection but has fewer and fewer tools to find and maintain it. "We came out of the pandemic with a feeling of, okay, I want to be in the world with other people and feel the warmth of real people," he says. "And yet, we have an increasingly lower number of useful tools in finding connection and staying connected, which are two totally different skills." His metaphor is sharp: we are more hungry than we have ever been and we have no idea how to cook.

When Steven asks for a toast to his engagement, James delivers one of the most moving passages in the episode. He says every marriage ends, either in death or divorce, and he hopes Steven's ends in death. "I hope when it ends in death that she will say, hopefully to you or to those around, you helped me become the most authentic version of myself and you are still my favorite person." He describes this as the greatest gift one human being can give another. James makes clear he is both a divorce lawyer and a big fan of love, and that those two things are not contradictory. He sees divorce every day and still believes romantic love is worth the risk. "Even in the face of knowing that this is risky, this is something that may not work, this is something that statistically the odds are against, but I am going to give it a shot."

Section 2. The Number One Reason Marriages Fail

Steven asks the question directly: if his fiancee ends up walking into James's practice someday, what is the most likely reason? James does not hesitate. The number one reason, particularly with women divorcing high-achieving partners, is that she has stopped feeling seen. "In the list of things that are important to Steven, she is somewhere in the middle to bottom of that list," he explains. It is not that Steven does not love her. It is that the lifestyle of a driven entrepreneur, flying from coast to coast, triaging invitations, managing multiple businesses, naturally pushes a partner down the priority rankings.

But James is quick to say this is not inevitable. He has seen plenty of people with equally chaotic lives who maintain connection through small, consistent gestures. A one-minute FaceTime between recordings. A text saying I heard that song and it made me think of you. "How hard is that?" James asks. "That is the number one complaint. That is the number one reason that I am going to have a woman sitting across from me divorcing someone who is a great provider, great protector."

Steven admits this is not obvious to him, and that his natural operating mode is total absorption in whatever he is doing. He can lose fourteen hours and forget to check in. James reframes this as a feature, not a bug, as long as Steven builds in systems. "You have so many gadgets and you cannot have some reminder in the day of like, oh, her, keep her in my line of sight."

Section 3. Slippage, the Silent Marriage Killer

James introduces his concept of slippage, which he describes as the gradually increasing number of small disconnections that in themselves mean nothing but cumulatively destroy relationships. "No single raindrop is responsible for the flood," he says. "That little raindrop, it is just a little raindrop. That is all it really is." But enough of them, over enough time, and suddenly a couple is in his office citing a dramatic betrayal that was really just the final symptom of years of unnoticed drift.

He argues that most people do spot the slippage in the moment but dismiss it as not big enough to fight about. This is the cognitive bias that will keep him in business forever, he says, because people just do not want temporary discomfort. "Our aversion to pain will win every single time. We know this. That is why there was an opiate crisis more so than a cocaine crisis. One of those things is about making you feel really good and the other is about getting rid of pain."

The solution is not dramatic interventions but simple reframing. Instead of saying something is going wrong, say something has changed. "Have you noticed that? Is it just me?" This makes it a non-defensive dialogue rather than an accusation. He demonstrates with the example of declining sexual intimacy, showing how the same concern can be expressed as a demand that blows up in your face or as a tender invitation to reconnect by reminiscing about a weekend where they never left the room.

Section 4. The Weekly Ritual That Can Save Any Relationship

When Steven asks for one relationship ritual that would most increase the probability of staying together, James has a clear answer. Once a week, tell your partner three things you love about them. Every week, it should be something different. The advanced version adds three things they did that week that made you feel loved, three things you could have done better, and for fun, three things they did that made you want to have sex with them.

He references the Dalai Lama story about the executive who said he did not have fifteen minutes a day to meditate. The Dalai Lama's response: then you should meditate for an hour a day. James feels the same about relationship maintenance. "If you do not have five minutes a week to devote to your spouse or partner, then you are going to need hours."

Steven pushes back: some partners would cringe at this. What about Dave who just will not do it? James is having none of it. "Dave cannot name three things he likes about you. Really, Dave? Is that a big ask?" He argues the deeper issue is not that people cannot do it but that they are terrified to. The fundamental human fear, he believes, is that if someone truly saw us, all the weakness, the selfishness, the darkness, they could not possibly love us. "You love the character I am playing. If you saw the real me, you would not really love me." This fear of unworthiness prevents the very vulnerability that deepens connection.

Section 5. The Menu Approach to Supporting Your Partner

James and Steven explore a practical example that many couples will recognize. Steven explains that when his fiancee is struggling with something, she wants him to be present and offer advice, while when he is going through something, he does not want to talk about it at all. James's solution is elegant: offer a menu. "I have a menu for you. Can you tell me which one you want? I can just listen and tell you I love you. I can give you some solutions. I can try to distract you with a funny story. I can pick you up and tickle you. We can go for a walk. Which would you like?"

This takes thirty seconds and replaces blindly throwing darts at a target you cannot see. He also reveals a trade secret from his courtroom practice: when an opposing lawyer comes at him aggressively, his first move is to apologize. "I am sorry. Your tone, it feels like I must have said something wrong." This immediately disarms the other person. He argues the same technique works in relationships, that having some humility, apologizing first, has tremendous value in preventing escalation.

Section 6. James Sexton's Childhood and the Fear of Asking for Help

In the episode's most vulnerable segment, James opens up about his own struggles. His father was a serious alcoholic. His mother was consumed with tending to that alcoholic. When young James needed something, even breakfast, he was met with "what, you cannot make your own breakfast? What is wrong with you?" This taught him to be radically independent, to never ask for help, to become competent at everything himself. He pulls up a childhood photo: a lonely nine-year-old in his room with a Bruce Lee poster, practicing karate, seeking the protective power that discipline could provide.

"I was very lonely. I was really sad," he says. Martial arts gave him a superpower he could build through discipline. At fifty three, in therapy, he is still working to let that little boy know it is okay to ask for help. "I hear you. I am glad you are still there. You do not have to be so scared anymore." He describes realizing that the same radical self-sufficiency that built his career has been the greatest obstacle in his personal life.

He turns to Steven and says there is probably a little boy hiding in some part of his room too, feeling very lost and lonely. "There is nothing wrong or weak or not masculine or not strong about acknowledging that is still a voice in your head." The voice once saved you. It did a really good job. But you do not have to let it drive the car anymore.

Section 7. Independence Versus Connection

Steven raises a pattern he has noticed: all of his most independent friends struggle the most to form relationships. James agrees and describes his own journey through his thirties and forties, when he believed there were two warring forces inside him. One was the courtroom assassin, lead pipe cruelty and mercenary sensibility. The other was the man who gets misty eyed talking about love and cannot make it through an episode of Love on the Spectrum without weeping. His ex-wife once told him he would never love any woman as much as he loves the law. "You are great in a courtroom and you have no idea what to do in your living room."

For years he tried to kill the soft version of himself. He blared Nine Inch Nails on his headphones trying to become a machine. It did not work. What he eventually learned, partly through this kind of public conversation about love, is that those are not two warring forces but two authentic aspects of self. The empathy and sensitivity make him a better lawyer. The toughness protects his capacity to be vulnerable. "Let them dance," he says. "There are times where this guy should take the lead. And there are times where that very focused self should lead."

He addresses the modern glorification of independence. "Dependency is like not cool. Be your own boss, start your own business, stand on your own two feet." But independence, taken to its logical extreme in relationships, just builds a castle with a moat. James argues we need to see the quest for love not as weakness but as courage. "If you are not scared, it is not brave. It is brave because you are scared and you do it anyway."

Section 8. The Prenup Conversation

Steven asks whether he should get a prenup, and James launches into a masterful explanation using M and M candies as props. He creates three piles: yours, mine, and ours. A prenup simply codifies what belongs in each bucket. Without one, you are letting the state legislature make those decisions for you. "You have been to the DMV. Have you walked in and gone, oh these people are great, they should be in charge of everything?"

He explains the seven-year community property rule in California: after seven years without a prenup, everything becomes subject to division, including assets owned before the marriage. This creates perverse incentives where savvy partners may time divorces to maximize their take. He has clients right now waiting six months to file because hitting the twenty-year mark kicks up alimony formulas.

James demolishes the objection that bringing up a prenup shows distrust. "If you are afraid to have a hard conversation with your partner, then you should definitely mention a prenup, because if you are going to get married, you should get accustomed to having hard conversations." He reveals that Steven's fiancee was actually supportive of a prenup because she wants to protect her own assets and the business she has built.

He also introduces the concept of the petnup, a contract he created at trustedpetnup.com for couples who share pets. Custody battles over companion animals are increasingly common, and having rules in place before a breakup prevents judges from ordering dogs to be sold and proceeds divided, which he has actually seen happen.

Section 9. Gray Divorce and the Future of Marriage

James discusses the gray divorce phenomenon: divorce rates for people over fifty have doubled since 1990 and tripled for those over sixty five. He attributes this partly to people living longer and more sexually active lives thanks to medical advances, making seventy and eighty year olds unwilling to stay in unhappy relationships. He also notes the reduced stigma around divorce, which he sees as largely positive.

For millennials, divorce rates have plummeted, but James cautions this may simply be because they have not been married long enough yet. "People get divorced the same way they go bankrupt, very slowly and then all at once." The catastrophic failure of a marriage takes time to manifest.

Section 10. Two Dangerous Assumptions

In his closing advice to Steven, James identifies two seemingly contradictory assumptions that doom marriages. The first is thinking that marriage will change the other person, that he will work less, that she will worry less. The second is thinking that nothing will change, that the beautiful dynamic of early love will be permanently preserved by the act of getting married. Both are traps. Things will change and they should change, and the only way to navigate that is to keep talking about it without judgment. "Hey, remember these two people? That guy is a little different now. Is that okay? Why did that happen?"

He returns to his central thesis: "Your marriage will end. I promise. I hope it ends in death. And I hope when it ends that you will look at her and say she helped me become the most authentic version of myself and she is still my favorite person."

Section 11. The Dream About His Mother

In the closing tradition of the show, James shares the most significant dream he has had in the past year. He tears up describing a dream about his mother, who died ten years ago after a long battle with cancer. There was a lot between them that needed to be said and was not said. In the dream, she simply sat with him silently, patting his leg while he talked. No words from her. Just presence.

He woke up feeling calm, as though he had actually spent time with her. The message he took from it was that sometimes the words got in the way between them, and what really mattered was just being next to each other. Since that dream, he has been trying to do that more with the people he loves, to just stop talking and be present. "I am really good at talking, so I just keep doing it. And I am learning with my sons and with the people that I love that sometimes just being next to them is nice."

Steven asks the final question: at the end of the day, it all comes back to love, does it not? James laughs through tears: "Yeah, it does. Is it not funny? We have added all these layers of complexity to it. That is all it comes down to." He reflects that late middle age has taught him two things. The hardest thing to become is yourself, your authentic self. And really all any of us want is to be loved and to be worthy of love. "Everything you have will add up to a great pile of nothing other than the people who you love and the people who loved you and the experiences you had with those people. That is it. That is all that matters. Everything else is noise."

Key Takeaways

One. The number one reason high-achieving partners get divorced is not infidelity or financial ruin but the gradual feeling of being unseen, of slipping down the priority rankings in a busy partner's life.

Two. Slippage, the accumulation of small disconnections over time, is the silent killer of marriages. Most people notice it happening but dismiss each instance as too small to address, which is precisely why it becomes catastrophic.

Three. James recommends a weekly ritual: tell your partner three things you love about them, three things they did that made you feel loved, three things you could have done better, and three things that made you want them. Five minutes a week that can prevent years of drift.

Four. The fundamental obstacle to intimacy is not a lack of skill but a deep fear of unworthiness. Most people believe that if their partner truly saw all of them, the weakness, the selfishness, the darkness, they would not be loved.

Five. Independence, glorified by modern culture, can become the enemy of connection. The most independent people often struggle the most in relationships because they have built castles with moats around them.

Six. Every couple should get a prenup, not as a referendum on trust but as a rule set that prevents the state from making decisions about your assets. Without one, everything becomes subject to division under community property laws after a period of years.

Seven. Romantic love is worth the risk precisely because it is risky. As James puts it, if you are not scared, it is not brave. The prize at the end is figuring out who you are, helping someone else figure out who they are, and having a partner through all of it.

Eight. The two most dangerous assumptions in marriage are that it will change the other person and that nothing will change. Both are wrong. The only solution is continuous honest conversation without judgment.